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School Committee Member shirking fiducuary responsibility

Why is Chris Roberts defending Mount St. Charles' tax exempt status when Woonsocket should be exploring every opportunity to increase the tax rate?

Here's a school that has tax exempt status, owns 22 acres in the city and charges Woonsocket for ice time yet pays nothing back to use the city's ball fields for baseball and other sports.

The school charges $10,000/year for tuition and uses city services. The non-profit status they enjoy comes from the city but that non-profit status is supposed to be for educational buildings. How does an ice rink qualify as a non-profit when they charge schools and other groups (Over 35 hockey leagues etc.) for its use?

For Mr. Roberts to be an apologist for the school shows he is more interested in protecting his alma mater's interests than in doing what's right for the city's students. The school committee and city council should research the tax codes, and amend them accordingly. If nothing else, charge all out of district students using the rink a fee and have a portion of that transferred to the city.

Having the person who received the most votes for school committee acting as an obstructionist when the school department is so deep in debt makes no sense at all and maybe the voters should explore what it takes to recall such an elected official.

Still Hope

2:40 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

Are you asking city officials to taint one of the last respectable icons of Woonsocket? I think you might be grasping at straws if you think Mount is raping the community for the use of it's ice. I applaud your outside thinking, but targeting Mount's ice rink maintainence fees might be a little over zealous.
-Proud WHS grad.

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The Chorus

3:33 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

Mount uses city tennis courts but I believe they have their own soccer, baseball and softball fields.

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Lynne Beaudry

8:30 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

The MSC middle school girls softball team uses the field at Bernon Heights preventing the Bernon students from using during the spring.

XBOXONE RULES

4:54 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

Yes they do chorus and i do agree mount needs to pay up.

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The Chorus

7:40 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

Which fields specifically?

Steve

6:16 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

Keep reaching at straws James, I know, they're the rich and they need to donate to the cause right?

Nice to know the socialist movement is still kicking in Ri.

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Steve

6:22 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012

And gee, go figure, no James Thomas on the Woonsocket Tax Roll either. Imagine that!

James, are you actually a tax payer in Woonsocket, or just blowing hot air?

russell archambault

12:54 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

of course lets attack mount, the highest educational institution in the city. im sure one feels that any place that might look at an institution of the privileged can be looked at going after. we have so many great thinkers in this city. lets go after the parochial schools also. those teachers are making too much profit on city land. you better look at the beacon school and see how much beacon is screwing the city in taxes. hold on to your seat when you find that one out. if getting taxes from mount will save our city, i say lets take over the land and build affordable housing. reason: if mount gets taxed they close. the kids who go there will have to go to public school. mount will abandon that site. guess what brilliant thinker a large company would come in and build houses, more kids, more kids in public schools then what brilliant thinker. im sure you have a degree in economics. I have a plan to raise at least one million tax dollars a year. talked to a city council member more that once on the subject. no one ever listens to me. perhaps because im not politically correct, but just plain correct. its too easy!!

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Carole

7:49 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

Not sure why Mr. Thomas is attacking Mr. Roberts. He is actually trying to make changes in the school department. Why Mr. Thomas would describe him as an obstructionist to trying to solve the school department debt issues is beyond me. Mr. Roberts tried to look at retiree benefits to align with current employees benefits, but didn't even get a second vote by his fellow committee members to discuss it. These changes in benefits would have immediate and long term savings to the school department's budget. He has also made donations to the Athletic Department and has supported countless events this year. He has spoken at the statehouse in support of full day K in Woonsocket. That is the type of person I want and dedication I expect from the top vote getter.

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russell archambault

9:18 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012

carole; nice to hear from someone who makes common sense once and a while, even whether one agrees with or not. this kindergarten issue is one of those reduculas situations again. half or full days. im for full days. same buss trips (federal money)? paying for food. teachers getting paid the same."teach the dam kids" quite playing politics.

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Ray

10:20 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012

Great Idea James, we need to think outside the box and tax all catholic schools.

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russell archambault

9:11 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

ray;and james do you pay property taxes to woonsocket? im glad you want to think outside the box. try learning whats inside the box first!

Growing more concerned by the day!

8:27 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

If we're going to tax Catholic schools, we need to also think about school vouchers for those city tax paying PROPERTY OWNERS who send their children to Catholic Schools. I think 70% of their tax bill in a voucher sounds fair. We can't afford to support investing in our children's future and the future of Woonsocket while nontax paying Woonsocket RENTERS have cash for new cars, flat panel TV's, Cable TV and Internet, IPhones, liquer, beer, etc....

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russell archambault

9:13 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012

C c that would probably mean more confusion, and more fraud. lets leave real private schools alone. charging taxes is not always always the answer.

John R Dionne

8:41 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

I was talking to a local business person who has two children that are students as MSC.
The discussion was not on the taxability of their property but on the potential sup-tax bill that we will be receiving. He said that he may have to transfer his children into the public system because of the additional taxes. If we taxed this non-profit or the other private schools, the tutitions would have to go up. To bring more children into the public system would only add to our financial burdens as taxpayers.

John R Dionne

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Jason D

10:54 am on Monday, June 4, 2012

John R Dionne - right on. There was an article in the Call (I believe) a few years back where the Superintendent of WED said that WED can handle the incoming students from the private schools (if they were to close). BS you can. If GWCRS were to close and all Woonsocket students enrolled in public school how is there not a cost increase. Most grades have 2 classes per grade and most are city residents. So you would have to hire more teachers and you don;t have the money for what you have now.
Yes I am biased as my children attend and will be attending private school in Woonsocket and really can't afford increases to tuition.

Still Hope

1:28 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Sorry Mr Dionne. Your anecdote is invalid and misleading. Mount tuition has doubled in the last 10 years and the 2012 class is the largest in the school's history. Also note that a HUGE portion of the student body is from outside the city, state, even country. Displacing the few local students that would potentially be affected by a marginal increase in tuition via a city-imposed property tax would NOT hinder the public high school in any form. On the contrary, if 10 city students were forced to leave Mount, 10 more "out-of-towners" would take their place. The increase in city revenue from these new students would offset any burden the old students might inflict.

Lastly, in regard to the local business person with 2 kids, a $ 0.25 increase in oil price would be a greater financial burden than the proposed supplemental tax. Will he take his kids out of Mount when the cost of oil goes up this summer? Or was your conversation just a piece of dramatization?

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russell archambault

5:16 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

STILL HOPE; again and again, ill state this, raising taxes or going after certain groups, is not the answer. ill go along with paying fair share ! but i refuse to go broke when i have facts about abuse, stupidity, mis use of my tax dollars, mostly school dept. then wanting more. if you want to tax, tax, then lets tax all, including you . and lets have a new tax."for anyone who doesnt pay enough taxes". we can call it a "scum tax". that will surly solve our problems. by the way i dont see any one getting rich, that is working at mount or any parochial school. if it will make you feel better, i or my children did not go to mount. did john dione go to mount? if so. lets tax him, we can call that an "excessive education tax"

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Still Hope

9:28 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Russell. Maybe they should make an ignorance tax. I would raise yours a little because you seem to be missing some important info, particularly the current tax structure. I will break it down in simple terms for all the naysayers on this forum.

Most citizens are currently paying taxes either on par or lower than they were 10 years ago, contrary to all the bad news Chicken Little has been spreading. But this is where you say "No way, Menard screwed us by not raising taxes and that's why we have the current problems". And that's when I link the facts:
http://www.ci.woonsocket.ri.us/woonsocket.historic.tax.rates.pdf

Did you see in 2002 when the property tax rate was 29%?!? And this was before Homestead Exemption! In the following years, still under Menard, taxes were slashed and Homestead was put in place to satisfy the landowners. *This is the key part* Property owners got a nice little treat, while the so-called "scumbags" got nothing. Here's where it gets better. Over the next few years, the tax structure and the homestead get played with a bit. Which brings us to 2011-2012. The single home buyer/hard worker/sweet family gets an exemption of 42%. The duplexer/up and comer/temporary citizen gets 15%. While the investor/slumlord gets the paltry 5%.

So, essentially, your "scum tax" is currently in full effect. What irks me is how the schools are not only underfunded by the state but the contribution the city is currently applying is almost half of what it was in 2002

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Tommy Tutone

10:25 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Your numbers make no difference,the local economy can no longer afford these taxes.The state cut aid to cities and towns,in part, to pay for all the unemployment insurance that was shelled out since the recession started.Your micro view of the city's finances fails to take into account all the damage that has been done in the last four years.
Don't forget,RI has the second highest unemployment rate in the country and Woonsocket,according to Ocean State Current, has an unemployment rate of around 13 percent.All the numbers you throw around don't compute against that economic backdrop.They're ancient history.

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Still Hope

1:38 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Dead. I read that article the first time you posted it last week. I gave you a table of hard figures, you gave me graphs of estimates and assumptions. This is a quote from the Ocean State Current on your topic:

"A detailed summary of the methodology is not readily available, but in basic terms, it is a model based on and benchmarked to several public surveys. It can be assumed that the sample rate (i.e., the number of people actually surveyed) in each Rhode Island town is very small (averaging roughly 30 people per municipality)."

I don't hold faith in a survey of 30 Woonsocketeers. You want a meaningful stat? 60% of people ages 20-35 yrs DO NOT have a home phone, therefore, phone surveys neglect that entire generation.

I will not argue that Woonsocket is not in financial and organizational straits, but I believe the picture is editorialized to look bleaker than it actually is. I said it before, a few cuts in the city budget, some temporary concessions from the unions, and we will be passed this speed bump without a huge loss in services or further burden to residents. Woonsocket needs to adapt a little better.

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Tommy Tutone

7:44 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

The world changed back in 2008,now it's time to adapt.Woonsocket also has one of the lowest per capita incomes in the state.I guess it's OK in your book to slap more taxes on someone who just lost his/her job or is working some pitiful minimum wage job.This is the new reality,you don't have to like it or embrace it but to keep pumping up the status quo is like an alcoholic in denial.

russell archambault

12:56 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

STILL HOPE; i pay more taxes in every form of taxation of the city structure than most citizens in this city. your correct, i guess, i, myself, is paying igonorance tax. not because i dont understand the structure of taxation in the city or state. but because i dont have a choice. maybe we should call it a"sucker public school fools tax" . so called scumbags got nothing because they provide nothing. whats fair is fair. public schools are far from being underfunded,i know that this is hard for you to understand,and believe. this is the part that is smoke and mirror, that everyone is fighting about.

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John R Dionne

10:29 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

When I had the conversation with the parent who had two children at MSC, I did ask
how many students came from Woonsocket. His answer, about one-third. The only property you could tax is probably the rink, which is used by non-profits. But if had your wish,and there was a influx of transfer students the tax revenue would never come close to the cost per student which is about $10,000 in the public system. If the parent in question received a $5,000 increase in taxes which would be off teh charts and has two children at Mount by transfering he would save $15,000 and we would lose $15,000 because of our
$10,000 per student cost. Sorry, there is no free lunch out there which the city taxpayers are about to find out because the Mayor and City Council failed to fund the shortfalls in the Education Department which is required by the City Charter.

John R Dionne

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Tommy Tutone

10:43 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

The City Charter is a static document that's not grounded in today's economic reality.If your tax and spend delusions come true,well,i guess we could call the next development in Woonsocket the Exodus!

Part of me is looking forward to that happening.

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Still Hope

11:37 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

John, if you know anything about public finances then you know that per capita spending is just a guide, not a usable figure. It does NOT cost an addition $10000 for every new student since fixed costs do not change(a $1M building still costs $1M no matter how many students). Enrollment in the public school is down 200 this year over last. By your logic, did we save $10000x200 ($2M) this year? Nope. Ready for more napkin math?

Mount has less than 1000 students over 6 grades, about 150 per grade. You say 1/3 are from the city, that's about 50 students per grade. If you were to displace ALL the city students that go to Mount, you might need to make one extra classroom per grade. More reasonably, I submitted displacing 10 students per grade(20%), these students would be absorbed into each class without significantly burdening the system. Remember we lost 200 public students this year with no real impact on class size or cost. I would suggest the actual cost of adding 10 students per class to be more like $500 per student per year, not $10000. So the cost to the taxpayers for your friend's 2 sons is closer to $1000.

James Thomas

11:10 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

John Dionne, I just got off the phone with the guidance office at MSC and found out exactly 89 students, that's 10 percent of the school attendance, actually live in Woonsocket.

So, for all of you who protest that an huge influx of students out of MSC and into the Woonsocket school population will overwhelm the system, you're wrong.

Taxing the school isn't what this article was about, it was about the school paying for property it owns that isn't for educational purposes; ie, the ice rink. Patrons use the rink and pay for the privilege; MSC should contribute to the city part of those proceeds.

How many times has someone been injured at the rink and a fire truck or rescue squad had to respond? Is a fire marshal or police detail ever needed at the rink? The school no doubt has to pay those fees.

When Mayor Taveras negotiates "Payment in lieu of tax," deals in Providence to get the non-profits there to pay into the city coffers you have to wonder why the mayor here can't do the same thing.

Early on there was a comment about Mount St. Charles being a city icon and I found that funny. Quite a few people would consider Chan's or the Beef barn icons too, but you wouldn't take them off the tax rolls, would you?

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Get real people

12:29 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

We DID have to take our child out of Mount. We are part of the hard working middle class that has NEVER received public assistance for ANYTHING in our entire lives. ALWAYS WORKED! We actually waited 5 years before getting married so we could save our money - waited another 3 years to have our first child - AGAIN so we could save and afford the expenses associated with having children - bought a small home and we PAY OUR TAXES. We have NEVER received a dime from anyone for anything unless we EARNED it. We struggled to pay the tuition at Mount year after year but Mount has continued to raise their tuition year after year after year, despite the economic conditions. Amazing how you can work so hard and do everything the RIGHT WAY yet so many people in this city are having children out of wedlock and not getting married so they can get everything HANDED to them. Could not be more frustrating!

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English first

2:00 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

At Mount do they teach you to look down on people who are less fortunate? There are many, many people in the city are surrounding towns that work, pay taxes, get married, buy homes and still can't send their children to "the highest educational institution in the city". Many wonderful students come from all our local public high schools. Mount students and alumni shouldn't be so snobbish.

russell archambault

3:47 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

english; these hard working people never tried to look down on anyone. they just told their story. have the hard working american dream !! not the welfare american dream. at the time I could not afford to send my 2 kids or chose not to send them to mount. they both graduated from woon. both are extremely sucessful in life. one of my grand children goes to mount. one of my kids dream. well deserving! nobody was trying to be snobbish. please dont attack people who just try to do the right thing!

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russell archambault

3:54 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

new to this site. ive come to realize something. reading comments, its difficult where people are coming from when you dont know their background, especially, their tax status.or whats in it for them. the only good thing is once in a while someone will have a subjective view to learn from. I once meet a person i believed to be called the doctor, who was running for, or wanted to run for mayor. im wondering???

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russell archambault

7:06 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

hello; i meant an objective view to learn from. most comments on this site are subjective.

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